Luke Knapp, Senior Manager of Corporate Real Estate at the Institute of Defense Analysis, describes the challenges of securing distributed energy infrastructure, the importance of standard protocols, human error management, and the evolving nature of cybersecurity threats.
In this episode of Beyond Built, Eric and Richard speak with Luke Knapp, Senior Manager of Corporate Real Estate at the IDA. They dive into the challenges of securing distributed energy infrastructure, the importance of standard protocols, human error management, and the evolving nature of cybersecurity threats.
The Institute of Defense Analysis is a not-for-profit corporation that operates three Federally Funded Research and Development Centers (FFRDCs) in the public interest: the Systems and Analyses Center, the Science and Technology Policy Institute, and the Center for Communications and Computing.
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LUKE: It's in your best interest to provide security updates. It's going to be catastrophic to your reputation if the sensors that you're providing have known vulnerabilities and they're not doing anything to protect their customers. That's one side of the house. The other side of the house is I think still inherent or incumbent on whoever the buyer is, to make sure that you're buying from reputable manufacturers, and you're using certified supply chains that you have a high confidence are not going to be tampered with. You're limiting your exposure to counterfeit goods. You're limiting your exposure to tampered with goods. You've got a clear supply chain from the manufacturer to your doorstep.
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ERIC: What do you think some of the common concerns are around capital planning, and around actually executing on those? Do you have any words of wisdom for those who are listening who are going through that process now?
LUKE: The most important thing is to determine what the ROI is. Particularly if it's changing from the baseline. So you're introducing some sort of green infrastructure. Are you able to articulate what that return on investment is?
The second part is you have to be able to sell it. So you can articulate the ROI, then you have to sell it to the right people. That would include your, your CFOs, your boards. Normally most boards want to see those improvements.
The third part is, can you actually execute it? Do you have the plan in place that when you say you're going to do a sustainability project, It's not just going to be a great photo op. Having that good execution plan that can actually be pulled off, I think is of paramount importance.
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00:20 - In The News
09:52 - Luke on green energy and cybersecurity
15:18 - Luke’s journey
19:52 - Major cybersecurity concerns and focuses
25:03 - Where to focus in real estate
31:14 - Common capital planning concerns
34:57 - Rapid fire questions
38:23 - Final takeaways
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[00:00:00] Eric: On today's episode, we'll be talking with Luke Knapp from the Institute for Defense Analysis about modern facilities operations, including cybersecurity and capital improvements, plus his love of blacksmithing. You don't want to miss that.
[00:00:13] But first, a word from our sponsors.
[00:00:15] Eric: Listeners and viewers, we'd like to start every episode with a segment we call In the News.
[00:00:20] Eric: Today, we're going to be discussing a recent article entitled, Cybersecurity isn't easy when you're trying to be green.
[00:00:26] so Richard, I know you, you, uh, had some thoughts on this article and I know I did too, but one thing that was a huge takeaway for me was the discussion about human error being such a big issue big factor in cybersecurity concerns. What are your initial thoughts on that?
[00:00:42] Richard: Basically when you look at cybersecurity, especially when it comes to energy or green energy or any type of cybersecurity, what typically happens and what I've seen throughout my years of work in the industry is that it's often those little things that are missed change management within putting in changes into networking, into new devices. Yeah, into new sensors, into an environment, and ensuring that all of the different testing and all of the different protocols have to happen. So oftentimes those protocols and that standard work or processes are in there. But what I find, Eric, is that it's those human errors, a missed step, a missed implementation, configuration that can cause those cybersecurity errors, that can cause those gaps or holes in the wall. So it's often not people not thinking about cybersecurity, but it's just somebody has to actually make all of that happen and make sure they don't miss a step in the process.
[00:01:44] Eric: Yeah. And I think that, the article does go on to talk about how that becomes even more difficult, the more distributed you are. I recently went out and visited one of our customers who operates wind turbines and just the amount of raw infrastructure that they have and how far away it all is from each other, probably has an impact on that, don't you think?
[00:02:04] Richard: In any area where there's wind turbines or huge solar farms, you have broad stretches of land where there are no humans, there's nobody sitting there monitoring and watching it. It's not a data center enclosed in four walls. But these are devices and, and technology that are distributed, deployed, distributed in a distributed fashion. It is hard to make sure that each one of those is covered, and that's why it goes back to making sure that you have standard work and processes to cover them.
[00:02:37] Eric: I think that's a good point. And I think about how companies are trying to modernize. Get better handle on their renewable energy, especially even if you think of the oil companies and things like that. I'll say that the local petrol station down the house, down the street from my house has a sign out front that actually shows the cost per kilowatt hour now for charging.
[00:02:59] And they've got these big charging bays at the back where it used to be. The place where you'd go fill up with air and water, that's now all taken up by charging bays. So that's again, More distributed infrastructure that is probably, needing to be secured for its own platform rather than, being part of their traditional networks.
[00:03:17] Richard: Yeah, and what's interesting is the evolution of the technology that's now storing energy off the grid to be used later. You see wind and solar and water energy derived sources being stored in new facilities. In fact, there's a customer of ours that is building these that basically stores energy for use later.
[00:03:41] We've got different facilities, you, you think of traditional, energy power, power grids, obviously need to be covered by cybersecurity. Now you've got other sources that are storing power, storing energy to be used on the grid. That energy is critical. It's a life, lifeblood, right, to a country, to a region, to a community.
[00:04:01] And so making sure that it's safe and secure and that it can be used and reused. So the more we're reliant upon these different sources and how we store these sources off the grid, It's going to be important moving forward, from a security perspective.
[00:04:16] Eric: That's great. And I think the other thing that comes to my mind is when I think about renewable energy becoming more critical to just the general infrastructure that we have around the world now, from both financially motivated, companies, as well as, as governments, but that means that cyber criminals, as well as nation state actors are probably going to keep looking to disrupt those sorts of new energy supplies.
[00:04:41] And the article does touch on that. So in your view, which type of threats should the government be looking at coming up with better standards on, and is this something that you think is going to be more prevalent as we do more shifting to green energy?
[00:04:57]
[00:04:57] Richard: All of these distributed assets, these distributed devices tend to have a lot of sensors, a lot of OOT, IOT types of things related to them. And the security of the networks that are associated with all of these distributed sensors and assets is really critical. And by the way, distributed assets and sensors aren't necessarily always in a wind turbine or a solar farm. It could be in a facility, could be in a building. It could be in a modernized facility that's been modernized for sustainability. So you have to be aware that if there's a way to break into a network, people are going to find it.
[00:05:36] In conversations I've had with people, the FBI, cybersecurity experts, and so on in the past, is that they're going to find a way. And as soon as we block the way they find another way. So there are more criminals out there and, and being able to use technology to affect cybercrime is so much easier than the old, let me go into a bank, and rob a bank.
[00:05:58] You're not basically having to physically be where you're, where you're breaking in. And so the security of all of those loose ends, those loose devices at the end of the stream. We always think about laptops and PCs being. Perhaps the, the big issue, but it could be HVAC systems. It could be building management systems.
[00:06:20] It could be IOT devices and sensors sitting on the end of a network and those have to be secured and the standards continually will have to be upgraded over time, just like we've seen in our lifetimes with laptops and security and encryption in a laptop environment and the protections that we put against cyber criminals in a laptop. You will find the same thing in buildings and sensors going on for years as we try to keep one step ahead of the potential cyber attackers.
[00:06:51] Eric: I guess then, if I take the natural next step of that statement, because we work in technology, in the technology space, what emerging solutions or approaches do you think could help the renewable energy industry shore up its cyber defenses as it continues this rapid growth? Because the growth is astounding, and something probably really has to be done from, from our industry, right?
[00:07:14] Richard: It's not so much a singular technology. it is a, a series of technologies developed. By information security experts and companies, who, basically build the protections. You know, think about it. How many companies develop sensors today? Those sensors go on a network. Those sensors can be hacked.
[00:07:36] So, essentially, what you have to start to do is build in standards and better standards. And there are standards already today. But like I said, it's just going to have to evolve over time. So I wouldn't say Eric, it's a singular technology. It's going to be a holistic approach to how, defending against cyber attackers is going to be on all fronts.
[00:07:56] Eric: My final word on that would be that we always think of technology as being the solution to things, but people in process are always the most important part of the implementation of any technology.
[00:08:09] Richard: Think about all the companies we all work for and everybody out there works for you go through a lot of different security. Measures and protocols and compliance training that trains you on how to look for the wrong email, how to look for somebody calling and trying to get into your system or get your passwords. Oftentimes those things are just human error, again, back to human error, not necessarily that the systems are not protected via technology.
[00:08:37] Eric: Absolutely. No, I think that's great. Okay, so let's move on now to our interview with Luke Knapp, who is a Senior Manager of Corporate Real Estate at the Institute for Defense Analysis, also known as IDA. Luke, welcome to the show. We're going to get into your background in, uh, just a little bit, but first, can we get your take on what we were just talking about, about green energy and cybersecurity? Do you have any thoughts on that?
[00:09:02] Luke: You know, my first thought when I saw that article is, the green energy industry is, we'll call it a little less mature than some of the other, energy sectors. And what that inherently leads to is there's, you know, they're developing their regulation. So they're developing their, best practices, their industry standards, and that includes for cybersecurity. It's very difficult to defend. I think Richard mentioned how many, how distributed it is and the additional number of nodes and, the further you are from them it's harder to secure.
[00:09:42] Physically, and physical security is your first line of defense, you have so many additional nodes, you're inherently reliant on, some sort of connectivity between them, so it's most of the time going to be, some sort of commercial internet service, and so you've just created, abundance of opportunities for a nefarious actor, to select the weakest link in that, um, and, start their attack that way.
[00:10:11] but the last thing you want is to end up being several releases behind. What that equates to while it might work well with your processes is that you have. A number of vulnerabilities out there, that you might not even be aware of. Good practices from the user perspective is when those updates come out, go ahead and update. Don't really wait.
[00:10:35] Eric: So what do you think about holding manufacturers accountable then because I think you know when you're talking about IOT sensors I think of anything that could be sensing, humidity. It could be sensing vibration. It could be just a camera, right? It could be a lot of different things. There's not usually a single vendor of all of these devices that someone's controlling. So what do you, what are, what is your recommendation then to help keep those manufacturers accountable to providing security updates?
[00:11:04] Luke: it's inherent in their best interest to provide security updates. It's going to be catastrophic to their reputation if the sensors that they're providing have known vulnerabilities and they're not doing anything to protect their customers. That's one side of the house. The other side of the house is I think still inherent or incumbent on whoever the buyer is, to make sure that you're buying from, reputable manufacturers, and you're using certified supply chains that you have a high confidence are not going to be tampered with. you're limiting your exposure to counterfeit goods. You're limiting your exposure to tampered with goods. You've got a clear supply chain from the manufacturer to your doorstep.
[00:11:56] Eric: That. Makes a lot of sense. So, Richard, I want to just ask your opinion on, on something specific about what Luke just said. If we think about the fact that there are a lot of suppliers out there, there are, of course, the bigger name suppliers out there, which, have more trustworthy supply chains and things like that. Are we stifling innovation by only allowing certain technological avenues, and the reason I asked the question is I was just reminded of Fisker going out of, or going into administration and technically going out of business. Are those going to become the world's most expensive paperweight, and did people pay for innovation that isn't actually going to make it out into the market?
[00:12:36] Richard: I think we're not stifling innovation because I think, like anything that has evolved over time in technology, the security has evolved with it. I know you love talking about mobile phones, Eric, but hasn't stifled the evolution of the mobile phone and the mobile devices from going back to PalmPilots and BlackBerrys all the way through Android and iOS, and then iOS evolution And Android evolution around security. You look at laptops, you look at any type of network, configured device at all. You see lots of companies still participating in networking that are evolving and innovating. And I think it's a matter of how do you ensure that those securities are built in. To the technology, into the network and into the processes. So I think innovation will always be there. It's just innovation with a compliance and regulatory slant, which I know Luke is very familiar with from his, his vantage point in his position.
[00:13:34] Eric: on into a little bit more about your background, Luke. Okay. So how did you get into this industry? How did you, get started in what you do today?
[00:13:45] Luke: I think that I got into corporate real estate the same way that most people I talk with get into it, which is, they found an opportunity and they took advantage of it. Very few people grow up saying I want to be the senior manager of corporate real estate. It doesn't have quite the same ring as I want to be an astronaut or a firefighter, but, I just come out of the Marine Corps, and got my, master's in business administration. And, uh, was on the job market at probably the worst time, which was early 2020. Um, and so actually interviewed for this role in March of 2020. I'd been looking at, you know, what would I like to do?
[00:14:30] Something that's different every day. And I saw the opening for, the facilities role at IDA and said, yeah, I'm pretty sure I can do that. I had no idea at the time the number of certifications and, you know, industry you size behind facilities management and corporate real estate. But fortunately the, hiring manager saw me, like, I guess they decided they saw, they liked what they saw and gave me the shot at it.
[00:15:01] Jumping right in, in the middle of CoVID lockdowns to manage. A real estate portfolio from, you know, both asset management and day to day operations, it was definitely the challenge that I think I was looking for. I more or less got hooked, and just kept exploring all of these different avenues of the facilities management and corporate real estate that hadn't been really under this role before or hadn't been talked about. So in a nutshell, that's, that's more or less how I got into this industry.
[00:15:35] Eric: Given your background as a marine critical skills operator, how did that experience shape your approach to managing corporate real estate and facilities for a defense focused organization like IDA?
[00:15:49] Luke: Primarily the critical thinking and I'll also say the, the planning, but not being married to your plan. Critical skills operators, for people who aren't really aware of what that is, it's the SOCOM component in the Marine Corps. So think of the Army Green Berets or Navy SEALs.
[00:16:10] You don't normally think of managing buildings or, the built environment. While that is true, you do have other, duties that, that you perform in those roles. But, none of them are directly relatable. It's really the, the soft skills, the ability to think on your feet, the, the ability to react quickly that critical thinking, and uh, approach your problem sets that don't have clear answers.
[00:16:39] And so coming at it with that approach that will, we can create a standard operating procedure for if somebody's desk breaks, how are we going to handle that?
[00:16:50] That shouldn't be something that requires a lot of mental energy. bringing that into the role, set up my organization for success. We are a customer service organization ultimately. Being able to provide for those customers and, and set their expectations as well is one of the key advantages.
[00:17:11] Eric: That's great. I think You know, connecting to that your industry is very regulated and I know that cyber security is a big concern. so when you talk about your industry, so let's, erase what we were talking about in, in specifically in green energy. But in your space, what are the major concerns and what are the focuses in your industry when it comes to cyber security?
[00:17:34] Luke: It's one protecting information and protecting the force. And so what I mean by that is, the protecting the information is what you would generally think of when it comes to cyber security. you're protecting the data. of course, that's, you know, important, uh, when you deal with u. S. government information, and that's highly regulated, but, it's also important when you're dealing with, proprietary or sensitive information. How are you handling that, Because while some of that unclassified information might not be by the name, it's not classified, on its own, gathering multiple pieces of that information can help build a picture that may become classified.
[00:18:25] So there's that aspect. The other aspect is protecting the people. Is the information that we have out there on the internet that could be susceptible will that do anything to alert these nefarious actors or, our opponents as to our operating status, so if they were to do some sort of attack. so there's, there's that aspect as well, making sure that, we're protecting our our staff and our clients from the physical aspect as well.
[00:18:59] Richard: Do you find that there are common pitfalls that you work to avoid in either one of those areas?
[00:19:04] Luke: Normally what the best way that we say let's attack this is through a process. What are we putting on a system? Why are we putting it on a system? And then let's evaluate the risk. It will talk outside of anything that's regulated.When it comes specifically to the facilities organization, the type of information that we might be collecting, we'll say utility usage, number of staff in the building, so your occupancy load, none of that is wrong to collect. The biggest challenge that we face is how is it being collected, and then where is it being stored. If we're collecting it through hardwired sensors and it's being stored on site, that's normally a pretty easy sell to get that approved. If it's being collected by a Wi Fi sensor and then it's being stored somewhere in the cloud. Just like we talked about with the green energy, you have more nodes.
[00:20:06] And more pathways, so you have more points of attack. The cyber security professionals are, are really going to dig in and say, in their assessment, any of those pieces are vulnerable, and then is the system at, as a whole, vulnerable. To answer the question about pitfalls, I would say the biggest pitfall is really the wi Fi, Bluetooth, wireless communications, employment in sensors, which is always what we want to hear because Wi Fi and other wireless communication protocols To really enable you to reach different areas of your organization, and do it at an economical price. But what you're not paying for in cost you're assuming in risk, in cyber security.
[00:20:57] Richard: I was thinking maybe we should pivot and talk about something that is really related to all of that which is managing the corporate real estate. We'll call it the complex, right? The, the infrastructure, a lot of buildings, a lot of corporate real estate professionals are working on modernization of their facilities on sustainability on other things. But from your perspective, what do you think are the important areas of focus right now in commercial and corporate real estate for professionals that are similar to you?
[00:21:31] Luke: Number one, maintaining business continuity. So minimizing your risk of downtime and maximizing the use of the facility just from a good steward perspective. But to key on to that good steward perspective, at some point you are going to have to replace those systems.
[00:21:52] And so planning for them and having that long term view where you can say, let's say we have to replace a rooftop unit or an HVAC unit. If it's 20, 30, 40 years old. I'm going to go out on a limb, that the modern equivalent of that is, much more efficient.
[00:22:15] Just replacing it in kind, you could find some efficiencies. But that may not completely, uh, jive with your organization's long term goals or your sustainability objectives. Really the plan has to happen some cases, two to three years ahead of your anticipated end of life of those assets to say, we're expecting this HVAC unit to need to be replaced soon.
[00:22:42] Let's get the design done so that we can implement either something that's more economical, something that uses less energy, provides better comfort, et cetera, and then, plan that procurement, and ultimately don't, don't wait for it to break, which can be difficult. Buildings don't always get the immediate attention, in your capital budget cycles, but, if you have a good justification, you, you use the math and you do the homework to say what the facility condition index is and show that from the business perspective, we're essentially running at risk if we don't replace it now and we're going to keep on sinking money into it.
[00:23:27] So we're saving money by replacing it. since we're ahead of the game on this, we're not in reactive mode, we're in proactive mode, we can also hit some of these other key objectives as well. And most large organizations have some sort of ESG or sustainability goals, the top management is, is concerned about from, the C suite to the boards.
[00:23:51] Certainly a lot of the lenders are looking for. ESG initiatives before they, they lend money. So that allows the facilities organization to be a partner for the corporation in that as opposed to spending money when, when things break.
[00:24:09] Richard: Luke, on the time horizon that you just laid out, are you normally looking and do you suggest people look at two, three years? Like, what is the time horizon that you're planning for, from a facility's perspective? It sounded like it was really two to three years, so you're planning today for what you might need in your facility two to three years from now.
[00:24:29] I just want to
[00:24:30] Luke: Yeah, so I actually am looking up to 10 years now. 10 years, of course, is going to be a lot more vague and your priorities can shift quite a bit in that time. As you get closer, reevaluate every year and and makes a lot of those management calls that your uninterrupted power supply, might need to get moved up because it's no longer supported by the manufacturer.
[00:24:55] so you'll end up making those decisions, but The first thing that you have to have is visibility on what your assets are. You have to know what condition they're in, and when their estimated end of lives are, in order to have that visibility.
[00:25:11] that's really as simple as just pulling what, what's the end of, what's the expected end of life for the next 10 years. Build your plan based off of that.
[00:25:20] You're likely going to have some sort of annual cap that you have to get under. And so that's when it becomes a puzzle game. You can make some of those, decisions based on your different constraints and the, we'll also say the operating status of the different facilities.
[00:25:39] So if you're running a zero downtime data center, you're likely going to be taking a lot less risk, on those systems. failing. Whereas, if it's an office building and it's a standard pieces of equipment that you can get replacements for fairly easily, you might take a little bit more risk on that.
[00:26:00] So if we connect the dots between those things, the next logical question I have for you is about capital planning. So if we're talking about these improvement projects that you're doing, I'm sure that some of them do come under capital budgets rather than under just regular operational replacements. What do you think some of the common concerns are around capital planning? around actually executing on those and do you have any words of wisdom for those who are listening who are going through that process now?
[00:26:32] The most important thing is determine what the ROI is. Particularly if it's changing from the baseline. So you're introducing, sort of green infrastructure. Are you able to articulate what that return on investment is?
[00:26:49] The second part is you have to be able to sell it. So you can articulate the ROI, then you have to sell it to the right people. That would include your, your CFOs, your boards. Normally most boards want to. See those improvements.
[00:27:04] The third part is, can you actually execute it? Do you have the plan in place, um, that when you say you're going to do a sustainability project, that's a great photo op, if you will. It's not going to be a great photo op if it's late and over budget and, everybody's frustrated and just glad when it's over. Having that good execution plan that can actually be pulled off, I think is also we. Will say of paramount importance.
[00:27:33] Eric: Yeah, I think when we think about especially anything that's, emerging technologies or, anything around energy efficiency. Those things typically have a very high cost associated with them. So, one question I have about that is, do you have to come up with creative solutions about how to finance those kind of projects? Your organization wants to move forward, but they don't necessarily want to afoot a huge bill all at once. How do you make those sustainable upgrades more feasible for your organization?
[00:28:06] Luke: That does fall, partly in my lap to figure out how we're actually going to get the money. There are a number of, We'll say subsidies out there, incentive programs from wide breadth of organizations. Of course the government, whether it's state, local, federal, generally has some sort of program.
[00:28:27] One of our locations in New Jersey, the public utility up there, and they have a great program where they'll get, actually give you money. They won't just credit your bill if you replace anything from HVAC units to lights.
[00:28:43] That won't cover the whole cost of the project, but it will certainly reduce the pain.
[00:28:49] Your traditional financing organizations like banks, They have become more and more stringent on who they are actually lending to and what they're doing with the money and there's plenty of other factors that go into whether they're going to give you money, but if you're replacing something with old technology. Versus something with new technology that's cleaner for the environment. That calculus is going to change a little bit.
[00:29:17] Richard: That was great, Luke. Thank you.
[00:29:18] Eric: All right, Luke, that was absolutely great, and we really appreciate you joining us today. Before you go, we do have a rapid fire section we like to do with our guests, and we want to get your take on just a few things really quickly. First of all, we always ask our guests, what is your favorite innovation and why?
[00:29:36] Luke: The rise of the single board computer. So, your Raspberry Pis, and items like that. It's really enabled both your corporate style organizations as well as frankly your single individuals to expand their sphere of influence over anything that they want to monitor to affect. They're wonderful pieces of equipment to help you monitor or control things, and really give you some time back in your day because you, you don't have to walk all the way out to the gate to see if it's left open.
[00:30:11] Eric: Yeah, I think edge computing is not only interesting from a corporate perspective, but it's also very interesting just from a hobbyist perspective. I do a little bit of it myself. So connected to that, I'm going to ask you, what's one innovation that you wish would just go away?
[00:30:23] Luke: Giant touch screens in cars. okay, I'm okay with small ones, but the big ones, I think that they're just huge distractions. And, if you're driving at night, you have a giant screen blaring at you and it's ruining your night vision. That's why I think they should go away. I'm fine with the small ones, but let's cap them at maybe, say, six inches. We don't need something that's larger than my TV.
[00:30:47] Eric: Elon, if you're listening, he doesn't mean it. What is the number one thing that you think orgs should be doing that they're not?
[00:30:55] Luke: I think they should be taking bold approaches to impacts and innovations instead of incremental approaches.
[00:31:02] Eric: Yeah, not trying to eat, not trying to eat a whole pizza in one bite, right?
[00:31:06] Luke: you know, you're laying out your strategy. Go a little bold with it. Your implementation of the strategy, you're going to have to eat the elephant one bite at a time. But let's say we're going to eat the elephant, not we'll start with a mouse.
[00:31:21] Eric: So what's one thing we wouldn't know about you by looking at your LinkedIn profile?
[00:31:27] Luke: I think you mentioned earlier the backyard blacksmithing. That's certainly been a fun hobby of mine throughout the years. way my mind works, I'm very hands on, like to do different things, build stuff. And so the, the metalworking, the forming a piece of material that It normally is well outside of the realm of something that you can affect with just your bare hands.
[00:31:51] You add a forge and a hammer and an anvil and you can completely transform that into something either functional or beautiful or both.
[00:31:59] Eric: Absolutely. I love that. That's so interesting as well. So anyway, Luke, thank you so much for joining us today. We really appreciate it. We really appreciate the insights that you've brought to our listeners and we hope you've enjoyed the experience as well.
[00:32:12] Luke: Yeah, absolutely. Thank you for having me.
[00:32:14] Eric: So, Richard, what did you think of our conversation today?
[00:32:18] Richard: I think the conversation with with Luke was great because what it really did is it blended the needs to manage existing facilities, existing brick and mortar the capital improvements with that, the technology with that, with the evolving need to manage cyber security, regulations and compliance, and how that's evolving so quickly and how it affects us.
[00:32:41] Not just green energy that we talked about earlier, but it affects how you manage a corporate and commercial real estate environment. Luke talked at the end about blacksmithing and how, how it allows you to be creative and do things. And that's blending. I'll call it old world with new world.
[00:32:56] What we described today in the podcast is blending old world. I've got to manage a facility with an HVAC unit on the roof. With the new world of cybersecurity and sensors distributed all over the place that require us to make sure that we maintain control and have the security we need to protect our assets.
[00:33:17] Eric: I've worked in the software industry for a long time, but I've also worked in industry, and it's interesting to see how those things are coming together, because I would not think that 10 years ago, even most people who work in facilities or real estate would have thought about cybersecurity first.
[00:33:36] It wouldn't have been their first thought. They would have thought, oh, it is going to handle that. But in reality, the selection of vendors, the selection of which technology you're going to use, is very important to organizations if they want to operate efficiently. And cybersecurity is something that has to be forward for them.
[00:33:53] Richard: It's a matter of, of the evolving world, really, that we live in, you mentioned, Elon Musk and displays in cars, right? Who would have thought we would have had to have dealt with that either. The evolving world is going to be. We've covered AI in the past, we've talked about the evolution of generative AI, security plays a role in all of these different things and I don't think that there is a, a person, a technician, a dispatcher, somebody in the world working in facilities, in assets, in retail, in corporate, who's not going to come up against the evolving need for. A very high regard in the area of cyber security and information security moving forward. The CrowdStrike situation is just one example of a mistake that was caused by security software bringing down a number of servers. But it just shows you how prevalent things are. It can bring down an entire airline. For a number of days, it can bring down airports for a number of days. So I don't see anyone in the world really not being impacted by these things as we move forward.
[00:35:01] Eric: Yeah. I agree, totally. Now, I do have one last, really important question for you. Are you going to take up blacksmithing?
[00:35:08] Richard: Blacksmithing is not in my future. But, I'd love to say that I could do something like blacksmithing, but that's also not in my future. So, I like walking the dog. That's what my big hobby is.
[00:35:22] Eric: Excellent, excellent. And a good hobby, and I'm sure the dog appreciates it. So thank you again to our guest, and of course our sponsor Accruent. You can learn more about them at accruent. com.