There are some major actions organizations should be taking today, but they aren’t. Katie Mason describes which processes are most important. In today’s episode, we’ll uncover the gaps and provide insights on overlooked opportunities for you to improve operations and strategies.
There are some major actions organizations should be taking today, but they aren’t. Today we’ll speak with Katie Mason, Sr Manager, Development Systems at Jack in the Box. She describes which processes are most important. In today’s episode, we’ll uncover the gaps and provide insights on overlooked opportunities for you to improve operations and strategies.
Jack in the Box pioneered a number of firsts in the quick-serve industry, including menu items that are now staples on most fast-food menu boards, like the breakfast sandwich and portable salads. They have over 2000 locations.
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00:58 - In the News
08:41 - Katie’s journey
10:00 - Katie’s role
11:15 - Construction and expansion
20:48 - Keeping project management efficient
23:34 - How to improve collaboration
28:46 - Rapid fire
33:18 - Final takeaways
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[00:00:29] Eric: Hello, and welcome to Beyond Built. I'm Eric Cook, tech solutions strategist at Accruent.
[00:00:33] Richard: And I'm Richard Lurie, the President of Accruent.
[00:00:36] Eric: On today's episode, we'll be talking with Katie Mason, the Senior Manager of Development Systems at Jack in the Box, about the world of construction, expansion, and franchising, plus her love of extreme sports. Katie, it's great to have you here.
[00:00:48] Katie: Great to be here.
[00:00:49] Eric: Hi. Perfect. All right, listeners and viewers, we like to start every episode with a segment we call In the News.
[00:00:58] Eric: Richard, our In the News segment today is all about a topic that's been making headlines lately, changes in the fast food landscape. The article references the difficulties in quick service restaurants, ability to staff appropriately as well as several other topics.
[00:01:14] I wanted to start off talking about not only minimum wage, but bankruptcies in the industry and how some are outperforming others. What was your takeaway from this article?
[00:01:25] Richard: The key elements are how everyone is changing their habits. And I think those habits that are changing, who decides to go to eat at a quick serve restaurant, who decides to go eat at a full serve restaurant, how many times do you go out a week, do you go to the grocery store, do you go to a dollar general, a dollar tree, something else to pick up different food items.
[00:01:46] I think the buying habits are fundamentally changing and those buying habits impact everyone involved in that whole life cycle. And those buying habits can be influenced by price. Part of the article is talking about price. But I think part of it is also influenced by what is going on around us, how we're working, the habits that people have the price of food overall, and whether or not people can make time to go.
[00:02:13] I know we have We have Katie here on today, but it's one of the benefits of quick serve restaurants is they typically are located in such geographical areas that you can easily get to them, into them, and out of them. I think for families that are dealing with child care, dealing with all sorts of other issues they don't have a lot of time.
[00:02:32] They don't have a lot of time to fix food. They don't have a lot of time to go to a restaurant, a full serve restaurant. They don't have time to. To go to the grocery store sometimes and buy food. So I think, really, this whole category of quick serve restaurant fills that need and that life cycle I'm talking about.
[00:02:49] It's very fascinating to see how it adjusts over time. Based on elements in the economic environment, elements in people's personal lives and environments. Like I said, price of food, price of wages, and so on.
[00:03:02] Eric: What do you think about those restaurants that are outperforming and are outdoing it. So the article mentions chains like Olive Garden and Chili's, outperforming their other, their other competitors even with the wage increase and the, the price squeezes in California.
[00:03:19] Richard: I mean, it's going to sound like a simple solution, but I think it's location of where they are. I think it's the offerings and the marketing. Are you offering a broad set of, of food that fits the needs of all types of different consumers that are coming into a full serve type restaurant, such as a Chili's or an Olive Garden?
[00:03:38] And so I think as these restaurants cater and market to different kinds of people who need different want different kinds of food, different kinds of menus. And I think the other thing that's important, and I think this, this really covers from quick serve restaurants, To full serve and, fancier restaurants, it is the quality of the restaurant, the quality of the service, the quality of the people that work there. And what I mean by that is, how are you treated?
[00:04:04] As a consumer walking into any one of these restaurants, how does the drive thru work? How do all of these different things happen? If you're at Chili's or Olive Garden, do you feel comfortable going in? Do you feel like you're getting reasonably timed service?
[00:04:17] So it's all meeting different styles, different flavors of things, and I think it's how you're marketing to those consumers. I also think that there's restaurants that come and go. Some overgrow too quickly. Some overgrow quickly and actually succeed and thrive. And I think it's those that keep that, that quality in what they're doing. And those standards that they have. And so it's a consistent experience. It's a consistent place to go.
[00:04:44] The service that you get is the same. And I think those restaurants and those, those businesses and establishments broadly that, that have that kind of DNA or culture built into them are the same. Are actually the ones that succeed and move on and I could list a number of chains and I won't on this show today that have gone bankrupt or have, you know, we, we saw them grow really, really super fast, but they kind of lost their way along the way of growing so fast.
[00:05:14] But yet you see other chains growing. Maybe not as fast or maybe even faster who actually survive and thrive.
[00:05:23] So you see a lot of those come and go, right, as, really, really popular but when they grew and overgrew too fast, they lost their way on the menus, on the quality of the food, the quality of the service. And so on.
[00:05:35] It's really fascinating to watch. It's a fascinating industry for sure.
[00:05:39] Eric: Yeah, and I think, that's probably a great point for us to bring Katie in on. Let me introduce our guest, Katie. Welcome to the show.
[00:05:46] Katie: Hi, thank you. So,
[00:05:48] Eric: We're gonna get into your background in a little bit, but first let's get your take on what's in the news. Specifically California, because I know I want to focus there, because that was really the focus of the article. It mentions that a lot of chains are closing locations in California, and they're actually citing the minimum wage increase in California.
[00:06:05] So I have a two part question for you. Do you think we'll see more restaurant closures in the state overall? Or do you think chains are going to find a way to adapt? And if so, how?
[00:06:16] Katie: I would not be surprised if more chains closed. Not just due to the minimum wage increase, but just inflation that's happening right now in general, which is affecting customers across the board. So if you are a chain that is not offering or cannot offer those value options on your menu is one thing.
[00:06:36] And to Richard's point, the consistency. So if you have a mixture of company and franchise stores and you don't have a consistent experience across those I think that's really going to affect your customer base. I think we're seeing chains rely heavily on things like their rewards program or their loyalty points to try to keep those customers coming, but really I think it's going to come down to value, what you're getting for that value because the minimum wage increase, yes, we're having to raise prices, but with inflation in general, customers just can't afford to be going out to eat, like we used to, there's just too much going on everywhere else to dedicate our money to that, unless you're getting a great value, a consistent experience, it's just not worth it. So I think companies have to be really cognizant of that and make sure that they're, they have the correct offerings out there to keep their loyal fan base.
[00:07:36] Eric: any company that's innovating is going to look for those ways to keep business coming in in the areas they want to stay in. When I read the article, I thought these restaurants that are saying it's just the wage and that's what's causing the problem, I thought that was a little too simplistic of an answer and I really appreciate what you have to say on that.
[00:07:54] Katie: Definitely.
[00:07:55] Richard: Let's discuss a little bit about your journey, Katie, and how you got here, how you got into your role and, and, and what was the history there?
[00:08:05] Katie: So I actually graduated with a bachelor's degree in journalism, PR and advertising specifically. So where I ended up is surprising even to myself, but I was hired at Qdoba, which at the time was owned by Jack in the Box back in 2013. And I was hired as a field coordinator on the restaurant development team.
[00:08:28] But right when I was hired actually is when Qdoba was beginning their Lucernix implementation, because that's what Jack was using for project management. So I was tasked with helping lead that implementation and really from there, the rest is history. I really dug into my role with Lucernix and it led to my current role as the senior manager of development systems, where I'm really just helping the team, make sure that. Our systems on the team are doing everything it can to help our end users, our development team and other teams in the company stay on track with all aspects of development and capital project management.
[00:09:12] Eric: What is your current role and responsibilities, and I'm not just talking in general, but what is it that you really do and impact on a daily basis?
[00:09:21] Katie: I lead the Lucernix team, but we work with all of the development systems daily. So our main goal is to keep the Lucernix system running smoothly for all of our users. And that's going to range from our direct team members, real estate, construction, design, operations. Supply chain down to our vendors.
[00:09:45] Like we have our architects and our GCs in the system. So we're configuring the system. We're creating processes. We're troubleshooting. We're adjusting security, whatever it is to help our team function with. The least amount of frustration on a daily basis. We've got large growth goals with the company.
[00:10:05] So if we can keep our processes and systems running smoothly day to day, we're going to help the company achieve those goals.
[00:10:13] Richard: That's great. In your current role and related to Jack in the Box and now Del Taco, what are the biggest considerations you have in mind with construction, with expansion? And with franchising.
[00:10:26] Katie: Really, it's all about processes, if we have processes in place to help lead our team to meet these goals and to measure the metrics for these goals, we're going to be able to stay on task. So, As far as expansion, we are really expanding at a high rate right now. We're really focused on franchising. We're out there looking for potential operators who have business acumen, who know what it's going to take to open these restaurants, operate them successfully. We're looking for operators who aren't necessarily restaurant operators, where we're looking for franchisees that understand the business side of things, profit and loss, scheduling, people they're understanding the market that they're entering into.
[00:11:14] They can hire an operator for the restaurant as long as they understand the business side. And then our team specifically our franchise business team and our real estate construction and design teams work hand in hand with those franchisees from beginning to end to make sure that, kind of like Richard was talking about earlier, our customers are going to expect a consistent experience when they enter a Jack in the Box or a Del Taco, whether it's a franchise or a company location.
[00:11:44] So we really want to make sure that our franchisees are picking locations that we would pick as a company that they're designing them and opening them the same way that we would and operating them the same way that we would so that you can't really tell if it's a franchise or a company location when you dine in.
[00:12:01] Eric: I think that's interesting. I do have a follow up question to that, which is when you are helping a franchise build a new location, are you helping them also figure out where to put that location? Is that part of your process if they don't know? So they come to you and say, Hey, I've got the money to put up a franchise stake, but I'm not sure exactly where I should put the restaurant. Do you guys help with that process?
[00:12:25] Katie: That's, yep, that's exactly what we do. So our development team, our real estate managers and our construction managers work on both franchise and company locations. I know there are some brands out there that have separate teams, depending on the kind of location that's being open, but our real estate and construction managers work hand in hand with the operators or the franchisees through the entire process. So they are out there going on market rides, making sure that the locations that the franchisees are interested in make sense. In real estate, they talk about sites in terms of A sites, B sites, C sites. So we're out there with the franchisees trying to find those A and B sites, you know, yes, a C site, while it might be cheaper to open or quicker to open.
[00:13:11] If the sales aren't as great as they're going to be in an A or a B site, likely worth it to spend that money on an A or B site because you're going to see a higher return. So our real estate managers are out there touring the markets, using, our sales data, competitor info, whatever, you know, third party information we can gather on a location all goes into this decision whether it's worth developing or not. So we are consulting with the operators and encouraging them to choose locations that we would also choose as a company location.
[00:13:48] Eric: So what's it, what's at stake if someone chooses the wrong location?
[00:13:52] Katie: So ultimately, what's going to happen is lower sales, not great sales, We have a whole lot of processes built in to try to avoid that. Consulting with the operators a whole time, or, working with our team on company locations, we're trying to make sure from beginning to end that, that wrong decision isn't made from running our potential franchisees through background checks and making sure that we have the right people in place, or choosing the right locations. Yes, sometimes the wrong location decision can happen. And when that does happen, we also have processes in place to help bring that location back.
[00:14:35] So whether it's getting our operations in there to help a franchisee, having our marketing team work on it. We're trying to lift sales there. I'm not going to say that making a wrong decision never happens, but we do try to examine all angles of it before we get to that point. But we do have those teams in place to help out if a less than desirable location is used.
[00:15:01] Richard: I know location is a big part of the decision making process, but there must be other things that have evolved since you started at Qdoba, and, then Jack in the Box, and during your entire life cycle of what you're, what you've, you know, been doing. You know, how has decision making and business decisions in general evolved, and how has it impacted you?
[00:15:23] Katie: Since my time, I'm starting with the company. We've had three large leadership changes. So a lot of different changes have occurred in that time. We learn a little bit more with each set of leadership. The leadership that we have in place now that came on board in 2020, and specifically Darren Harris, our CEO is really growth focused now. you know, In the late nineties, early two thousands, Jack was very focused on company growth. But what came of that is we learned a lot through that process that we could apply to the franchise process. And now that we're focused on franchise growth, we're taking those learnings from two decades ago and applying them to franchise growth.
[00:16:08] And this leadership team that's in place now has actually come up with like an actual set of plans and processes to lead us. in strategic growth. So we've got a set of initiatives out there that are helping us grow more quickly, more efficiently, while using metrics to measure again. So we're, we're looking at cycle times.
[00:16:30] How long is it taking from us to identify a site, to get it approved at committee, to get it under permits, to get it under construction? How can we shorten those times? And at the same time, based on things like that inflation that we were speaking about, we're value engineering, our construction, our supply chain, we're making sure that the company and the franchisees are getting the best deal they can on equipment on building supplies and vendors to make sure that we're growing quickly, efficiently and at the right price point so that our profitability is still going to remain high, which, in this era of restaurants closing down, we've had to learn how to pivot with every aspect of development, coming through the pandemic, QSRs really did an excellent job of making sure that they could remain open during the pandemic that included changing things like, we've tested food lockers for third party delivery drivers. We're testing pickup windows so that our customers aren't waiting in the same line as our third party delivery drivers getting customers through quickly, and just kind of changing the way we do things as business is changing. So I think as a brand jack in the Box has really done, Jack and Del Taco have really done a good job making sure that we're listening to what our customers need and changing things.
[00:17:58] So our square footage in our restaurants is reducing, but we are adding those extra windows just to help with how business is being done now.
[00:18:07] Richard: First of all, my favorite is Drive Up Windows, so happy you're, you're getting more of those and I don't know how much, to what degree you can answer this, but I'm fascinated by the, the tracking of metrics and strategic growth. Are you seeing, along with these changes that have occurred, same store sales growth that corresponds with the changes you've made as a company?
[00:18:27] Katie: That's a little out of my wheelhouse, but I do know that through this testing, we're obviously seeing good returns because we are implementing things like these mobile pickup window programs and we're urging our franchisees right now we're in the middle of a large reimage program where we're, you know, freshening up our buildings and adding the pickup windows and just kind of changing things enough to keep us, relevant, but still successful, successful and not lose the core of what makes Jack and Del Taco, Jack and Del Taco.
[00:19:04] Eric: So when you are trying to get a restaurant from zero to profitability very quickly how do you keep things efficient and timely and project management?
[00:19:18] Katie: Just the use of a project management software like Lucernix has really kept Our company on a path to success. So my boss really likes to call it just in time project management. We have an area now where our different departments can not only collaborate. We've got our vendors in there, our architects submitting drawings, our design managers, approving those drawings and re uploading them to the system.
[00:19:46] And we're prompting all of our users through workflow to hit those critical Milestones at the appropriate time and development. So we have really created our process to walk our team through the real life process, step by step in the system, because it takes the guesswork out of it. We enter a site in the system.
[00:20:09] The first thing they're prompted to do is gather what information they need to take it to committee for approval, and we're running things on these schedules and these timelines so that. Each critical milestone is met when it should be and we're prompting the right people to take their required actions at the right time so that we can kind of tighten up that schedule that we're operating on and make sure that we're not missing anything important.
[00:20:34] As a publicly traded company, you know, we have to go through audits. So, using a system is a good way to make sure that all of our I's are dotted, our T's are crossed. We have a record of all approvals that we need. We've got all important documents uploaded, and we're just making sure that we're hitting all of that, all of those pieces at any given time.
[00:20:57] And then being able to report on that information. So at any time a member of the executive leadership team can run a report and see where we are on our construction schedules or where we are on our budgets or our actual spend, really just by the click of a button. It's. taken a lot of the guests work out and it's taken a lot of the risk of having people keep that information on their machines or in Excel or in their email. If we have all that information in one place, everyone can access it and it's the same data and the same information that everybody can view.
[00:21:34] Eric: I think about those sorts of things as like the premier evolution of collaboration, because I think over time, that has changed a lot. How specifically has it changed in your time at Jack in the Box from when you started to now, what are some things that you've done to improve collaboration across the board and what would you maybe recommend that people do?
[00:21:55] Katie: Definitely the use of technology like a project management system. We use technology for a lot of aspects of restaurant development, whether it's a GIS mapping system to get that location data, restaurant trends, competitor information, competitor sales, mobile data. We're looking at where were customers visiting before they came to our restaurant. And where did they go after to help us kind of understand our customers and their habits? Technology has come a long way, even in the 13, 14 years I've been with the company. But the one thing that I think is really important that Jack in the Box and Del Taco have both held onto is that boots on the ground approach to development. So yes, we have all of this technology at our fingertips. And it lets us get so much information while we're sitting at our computer, but that's never going to replace those teams being out in the market, really looking at the sites, looking at the locations, getting a feel for the area. We don't want to rely completely on technology.
[00:23:02] There's a reason that we have these real estate and construction managers. They have the experience, they have the knowledge, they're out there either helping us develop company sites or helping those franchisees develop their sites. With the aid of technology. The biggest change from when I've started to now is using that technology for collaboration, making sure that we have everyone's information in one place, everyone's opinions, you know, are accessible by everyone so that we get a whole picture instead of bits and pieces throughout the process, that we're really looking at these locations and these restaurants. From a high level while we have our teams, you know, diving into the little details.
[00:23:51] Eric: Do you struggle with, having third parties like, like your franchisee, access those systems or do they embrace that collaboration as well?
[00:24:00] Katie: I think there's always going to be struggle when it comes to technology. We've got a large group of people that are accessing these systems. A lot of them are still old school and want to take pencil and paper and drawings on napkins. But I think if you have the right system in place, And it's a user friendly system and you have a team of people that can support you using that technology.
[00:24:25] It's a lot easier to embrace. So I would never say that it's going to be a flawless system because it won't. There's always going to be people that just don't. Believe in doing things that way, but I think the more that you embrace it as a company and as team members, the more you're going to get your third parties, your vendors, your franchisees to at least embrace what you're trying to do in the system.
[00:24:51] So we do have our franchisees in our project management system. We have almost all of our vendors in there so that they can quickly access drawings, We don't have to use Dropbox anymore because we have a system where we don't have to email huge drawings from architects to franchisees to design managers.
[00:25:09] We've got them all in one place where people can download and upload with their corrections and it just makes, it's a time saver. It really is a time saver when it comes to collaboration.
[00:25:20] Richard: If you kind of could just see out into the future, right? So you've seen an evolution at Jack and now Del Taco and where do you think things will be five or ten years from now? Do you have like one or two things that you think are gonna change in in site selection, construction, design, project management that, that aren't here today but you would envision they will be here based on the evolution of technology?
[00:25:46] Katie: I envision things in a few years, we're already starting to see a little bit of. So, we're looking at restaurants using, let's say, AI for order taking in the lobbies instead of having somebody stand at a cash register, or, the increase in mobile ordering, or mobile order taking, I think that people are going to start relying on.
[00:26:10] More on that than we are now. I for one do enjoy also using a drive thru or placing an order through a mobile app to cut down on. People interaction, time, increase the speed. So I think really just relying more heavily on that technology as an interface between the restaurants and the customers is most likely where we're headed or we'll see an increase in.
[00:26:38] Eric: All right, Katie, thank you so much for that. That was really great. But I do want to move on to our rapid fire segment where we're going to ask you some quick fire questions. And I just want to get your quick takes. So the first thing is, what is your favorite innovation and why?
[00:26:51] Katie: I'm going to say social media. I don't know how else I would be able to like keep tabs on my second grade teacher or my favorite high school English teacher or my long lost high school friends. I think it's really cool that I can pick up my phone at any time and scroll and kind of see what people are up to. What they're doing with their lives, what's going on, what's the. Cool hip thing happening that I might not be aware of. So I am a slave to social media.
[00:27:20] Eric: Aren't we all? Aren't we
[00:27:21] Katie: Yeah,
[00:27:22] Eric: So what is your, what is your least favorite innovation or one innovation you wish would just go away?
[00:27:27] Katie: Social media. So I, as much as I enjoy keeping up on this stuff, it has made me. So much more self conscious. I compare myself to, everyone else out in there. You know, I've heard this gentle parenting. Am I a gentle parent? Am I doing it correctly? Am I supposed to be wearing skinny jeans anymore? Is my hair parted on the wrong side?
[00:27:53] It's so much, it's so much easier to pick up your phone and just, Instantaneously compare yourself to a million strangers on the internet. So that would be the downside of social media. And I can tell you it's a time suck and a time waster, and I'd probably be much better off without it.
[00:28:13] Eric: What is your favorite item on Jack in the Box's menu?
[00:28:18] Katie: It is the supreme croissant at breakfast time. It's got ham. It's got bacon. It's got egg. It's got cheese. It is. The ultimate breakfast sandwich, if you were to ask me.
[00:28:29] Eric: Oh, I'm sorry. The answer we were looking for was the sourdough breakfast sandwich.
[00:28:33] Katie: Okay. Also, also a strong choice. I have to say there are a lot of things on the Jack and Del Taco menu that I'm a fan of. So
[00:28:43] Eric: Yeah, absolutely. What's the number one thing that organizations should be doing today that they're not,
[00:28:53] Katie: I believe that would be document. Document your processes, document your information, your knowledge. We talked about how we've been through three leadership groups since I started and each time we have a new change of people, a little bit of knowledge is lost along the way. So if we are documenting those processes, making sure that we have a repository for all of this knowledge and information, we don't have to reinvent the wheel every time something comes up. So I am huge on documentation.
[00:29:26] Eric: that's great. That's great. And one last question for you. What's one thing we wouldn't know about you by looking at your LinkedIn profile.
[00:29:35] Katie: So I recently participated in my first trap shooting league. So that is a shotgun sport. I was in the Colorado Women's State Trap League, which is only the second women's only trap league in the country, Montana State being the first. So we just had our inaugural season and I actually finished as the 2024 new shooter singles champion.
[00:30:00] Eric: Oh, that's amazing.
[00:30:02] Richard: Congratulations.
[00:30:03] Eric: Okay.
[00:30:04] Katie: Was a lot of fun.
[00:30:05] Eric: so now knowing that that's your hobby, I absolutely concede to you that the, uh, croissant breakfast sandwich is the better one.
[00:30:11] Katie: there.
[00:30:13] Eric: Richard, do you have a favorite menu item at Jack in the Box?
[00:30:16] Richard: Any hamburger place in the world, my favorite is the hamburger, so it would have to be the Jumbo Jack with cheese. Sometimes without lettuce, because if I'm driving and going through the drive thru, no lettuce on any of my hamburgers. I love hamburgers. I think the Jack in the Box hamburgers are awesome.
[00:30:34] Eric: I have to say, living in the UK, we don't have any Jack in the Boxes here, but from my time growing up, it was always my favorite restaurant. For me, the Breakfast Jack was the thing.
[00:30:44] Richard: Well, now I need to go try breakfast at Jack in the Box. There's one a mile from my house. I don't ever go there for breakfast. So, that's a new thing. I'm gonna have to go try that sandwich. Heh
[00:30:56] Eric: go right now.
[00:30:57] All right. Well, thank you so much, Katie, for joining us today. We really appreciate it. Um, your insights are invaluable and we really enjoyed this conversation.
[00:31:07] thanks again. and goodbye.
[00:31:09] Katie: Thank you so much.
[00:31:10] Eric: So Richard, what did you think about our conversation with Katie today? What were your main takeaways?
[00:31:15] Richard: Wow, it was fantastic. Katie was a great guest. I think the evolution that she has seen in, in Jack in the Box, but I think it applies broadly to the industry. And I think the approach that they're taking there with strategic growth. So it kind of goes back to the beginning when I was talking about consistency of service.
[00:31:35] Where do you pick your locations? What do you do? She spoke to that, not only for company owned stores, but franchises. And it's fascinating to see that they've approached strategic growth, at Jack in the Box, much like we at Ford of an Accruant approach software development and building software and products.
[00:31:53] Look at the metrics that you need to track. Track those metrics. Determine how you become more efficient. Determine how you become better every day at what you're doing and evolve over time. I think the lesson learned is keep up with the technology. Use the technology to benefit the organization, but ultimately have a plan and, and follow the plan and, and make sure you're following the plan.
[00:32:16] So it was, it was a great day here.
[00:32:20] Eric: Yeah, I loved the conversation and what she said at the end about organizations keeping up with documentation of processes, I think really hits home as well. Because when we think about the software that we develop, we always try to keep in mind how are people going to use it. And how are people going to keep up with it?
[00:32:38] Because it's wonderful to be able to deliver a technology solution to somebody, but if it isn't usable and it isn't something that people actually want to interact with and can easily collaborate with people in, they're just not going to do it.
[00:32:53] Richard: It's a constant evolution as well. Ease of use, user experience of software, something that we're always working on and looking at and, you know, you don't want to disrupt the flow of current users. Yeah. And at the same time, you need to evolve and make it easy for people to do all of that, to document what they're doing, to enter what they're doing.
[00:33:11] I think businesses broadly have some of the same and similar challenges, right? Whether it's developing software or whether it's building a quick serve restaurant and ensuring that, what you're doing is, is following a process, is following a best practice. And so yeah, I think it's, I think it's interesting.
[00:33:28] Eric: Yeah, absolutely. And I think that overall, this is a subject that we could probably go on forever about because it's really deep and it's really wide at the same time. But it was a great conversation today. And again, I want to thank our guest today, Katie Mason, and of course, our sponsor, Accruent. You can learn more at accruent. com.
[00:33:49]